Torch the Strawmen (Revised and Updated)
Frederick Clarkson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 10:51:33 PM EST
This past year, the organizers of Netroots Nation asked me to appear on a panel organized by a local law professor in Pittsburgh. I did, and it led to some public debate before and after the panel. Below, is a slightly updated reprise of a post from our public wrangling -- one of a series of my favorite posts from 2009.

When I posted Professor Bruce Ledewitz's description of his proposal for a "New Progressive Vision of Church and State," it received an (understandably) poor reception.

I held back from offering my own views at the time except to say that I disagreed, but would state my objections at the panel discussion of his proposal at Netroots Nation.  My prepared remarks are posted here -- so while Ledewitz has not, to my knowledge, posted his full proposal as presented at Netroots Nation, the video is available at the Netroots Nation web site.

(I was feeling a bit ill at the time of the panel, but managed to muddle on through. As it turns out, it was a harbinger of things to come.)

There was a fair amount of blogging about it at the time, notably at The Wall of Separation, Friendly Atheist, and Professor Ledewitz later wrote a report on the panel, which served as a jumping-off point for further "round-table" discussion hosted by the prominent webzine Religion Dispatches. Meanwhile that sound... you can still hear it...that sound that sounds like footsteps in the distance -- is the sound of strawman arguments, marching, marching.   Fellow church state separationists, light your torches!

The Pittsburgh City Paper ran a preview story about our panel in which I stated that Ledewitz's idea of getting the Supreme Court to define God (yes, he really wants to do that) to accommodate his particular notions of secular values was a poor idea, insulting to religious liberals and conservatives, as well as non-believers.  A week after our panel strawmen started to appear on the horizon at Ledewitz's blog Hallowed Secularism.

The first strawman marched into view right in the opening sentence of his blog post -- in which he goes on to talk about me. "

"I have run into a problem I did not expect: secularists accepting religious fundamentalism's definition of God."
Now of course, he did not define secularist, so I let that pass, but he did not explain how my definition of God is in anyway fundamentalist.  As a matter of fact, I did not define God at all.  As he knew from my panel presentation, I emphasize that we all have the right to define and understand God as we will (or not) thanks to the Constitution's unambiguous support for the right of individual conscience as expressed in Article 6, and clarified and amplified in the First Amendment.  The strawman here is the false characterization of my views as that of religious fundamentalism in an effort to invalidate my argument.

Torch that strawman!

The next squad of strawmen to march around the bend was this:

"Frederick Clarkson even quoted Chris Hedges in his own book denying that God means a supernatural being:  "God is a human concept.  God is the name we give to our belief that life has meaning, one that transcends the world's chaos, randomness and cruelty. ...The question is not whether God exists.  The question is whether we concern ourselves with, or are utterly indifferent to, the sanctity and ultimate transcendence of human existence."

Why accept definitions of God propounded by people you don't agree with? Maybe to kill any possibility of rational religion."

The book Ledewitz is referring to is Dispatches from the Religious Left:  The Future of Faith and Politics in America, an anthology I edited last year, featuring 19 essays by 22 writers, including one by Chris.  I did not "quote" Chris.  I reprinted one of his essays; and not for the purpose of expressing agreement or disagreement with his ideas about God.  As I made clear in my introduction:
"participation in Dispatches does not necessarily imply agreement among the writers."
Ledewitz's insinuation that I want to "kill any possibility of rational religion" has no basis in fact.  And while I support his right to act on his fervent desire to evangelize atheists -- I disagree with his idea of enlisting the government to facilitate his campaign.

Torch those strawmen!!

But here is a quote from Hedges' essay that helps illuminate what is wrong with Ledewitz's approach.

"The problem is not religion, but religious orthodoxy. Most moral thinkers - from Socrates to Christ to Francis of Assisi--eschewed the written word because they knew, I suspect, that once things were written down they became, in the wrong hands, codified and used not to promote morality but conformity, subservience and repression.  Writing freezes speech.  George Steiner calls this "the decay into writing."  Language is turned from a living and fluid form of moral inquiry into a tool of bondage."
And that is the problem with Ledewitz.  He wants the Supreme Court to codify the definition of God.  Our fellow panelist Vic Walczak who heads the Pittsburgh ACLU described Ledewitz's idea as something that could open the door to "religious tyranny" or "theocracy."  And I agree.

As the wind wafts the smoke from these black piles of burnt straw back to their source, for the record, here is the entirety of my quote in the Pittsburgh City Paper article:

"If he was making a baloney sandwich, he used the whole package," says Clarkson, a Massachusetts-based independent journalist who specializes in politics and religion. "[Ledewitz's theory] is piled high with false premises."

Clarkson argues that Ledewitz's proposal is an "insult" to both liberals and conservatives. "Who is he to tell religious believers and non-religious believers what to believe about God?" he says.

Specifically, Clarkson takes umbrage with the Duquesne professor's desire to interpret religious language and symbols in universal terms, calling it "false religious universalism."

"I appreciate that [Ledewitz] is trying to solve a problem, but he's going about it the wrong way," says Clarkson. "He's saying, 'Hey, folks, let's have an interpretation that's convenient, so that we don't have to get mad about it.

"It's preposterous," he continues. "God means God. It doesn't mean 'universal values.'"




Display:
seem to agree much more with you than with the professor's thoughts on the definition of "God", as well as calling him out for his overreach in trying to smack both you and Chris with one mighty swing of his very tiny hand.( He looks really short in the NN video. :)

by trog69 on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 04:18:34 AM EST

Watching the video of the event, I was astounded to hear Mr. Ledewitz starting out his panel speech with this:

"Like most of you, I am a secularist. Despite being raised in an Orthodox Jewish school, I could not believe any longer in a supernatural God who could alter the natural order described by science. But, perhaps unlike you, I never lost my taste for the promise, beauty, and power of religious life."

This is astonishing ! - Bruce Ledewitz appears to misunderstand the meaning of the word "secular". As the Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines "secular".

"[secular: ] 1 a : of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns> b : not overtly or specifically religious <secular music> c : not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>"

It's almost as if he has confused "secularism" with "atheism". As Merrian Webster defines "atheism",

"1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity."


by Bruce Wilson on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 04:24:15 AM EST

Atheist: anyone who doesn't agree with me.

On a serious note - on campus, the confusion between "secular" and "atheist" seems to be a big problem.  I know it's a big problem for the churches around here, but even some non-Christians (and non-Evangelical/Pentecostal/Dominionist/Fundamentalist Christians) have uttered things in my presence that indicate confusion.

I think it's symptomatic of the brainwashing/propaganda that is constantly dripping from the Religious Right.  They've gotten people confused and misguided about what the terms mean.

by ArchaeoBob on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 12:45:07 PM EST
Parent


sounds closer to the Israeli definition than that used in American discourse.  Those Israelis who subscribe to the variety of orthodox practices are called "religious."  All other Jews are considered "secular."  Quite a difficult situation for any devout Reform Jew in Israel.

The American Religious Right can easily adopt this categorization to American religious life.  Since right-wing Christians doubt that the Progressive (or even moderate) Christians who advocate for the separation of Church and State are "real" Christians, "secularist" may as well be "atheist" as far as they are concerned.

by Rusty Pipes on Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 04:55:18 PM EST
Parent



Many fundamentalists see no difference between the terms atheism or secularism. Even Christians are considered practicing atheists if they don't follow the tenets of fundamentalism. A while back I watched a video with Newt Gingrich slurring the word secular as if it was something disgusting that crawled out of the sewer. He said it that way because his selected audience is filled with dimwits.

by offbeatjim on Sun Sep 06, 2009 at 01:36:59 AM EST

Frederick continues to do me the honor of taking my ideas seriously, if only to reject them, and I cannot ask anymore than that. I think it may aid discussion to note the context of our disagreement. Government currently makes use of religious imagery in the public square in a variety of contexts, such as the Pledge of Allegiance and Ten Commandments displays, and the Supreme Court usually upholds them. Secularism may engage this reality in one of two ways. It can reject any such use by government of religious imagery, in which case it has the obligation to present a separationist interpretation of the Establishment Clause to the American people, candidly and consistently. I don't think this has been done. It would mean, for example, joining lawsuits and pressing politically against prayers at Presidential inaugurations. Alternatively, secularism could accept some or all of such public religious imagery, but reinterpret it along nonreligious lines and insist that government proffer such nonreligious justification when religious imagery is used. I am suggesting the second path.

by Bruce Ledewitz on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 10:27:33 AM EST
I think first you need to lay out your definition of secularism.  If you define it in any way related to atheism (or denial of God), you're making a big mistake.

Secularists are not atheists or even related- I am a staunch secularist AND a Christian (although I follow a little-known form of Christianity).  My "definition" of God is my own- and I don't want Government OR the d*mned dominionists trying to force their definition on me.  The same goes for Muslims, Jews, the various flavors of Christianity, traditionalists, you name it.  It's called freedom of religion!  Freedom of religion is best protected by keeping the government out of it- and trying to have some sort of definition of God, for instance, intrudes on my freedom to visualize and follow God as I perceive God!!!

A second problem I have with your idea is that while you're talking about "public religious imagery", the Dominionists are constantly pushing for a THEOCRACY, and their definition of "public religious imagery" is SECTARIAN- and they will always push for more of the "public religious imagery" as THEY see it.  That's why having Rick Warren speak at the inauguration was such a severe mistake. You cannot compromise with such folks.  They don't want to just be able to worship in their own way (protected by freedom of religion) - their goal is forcing us all to worship as THEY do!  They may tone down their language for political purposes, but they cannot be trusted in any way. We have too much evidence of their real goals!

If dominionism didn't exist or wasn't the real threat to freedom that it is, I don't think we'd even be having this discussion.


by ArchaeoBob on Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 12:35:06 PM EST
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by lifetime on Sat Feb 15, 2020 at 04:25:04 AM EST


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