Nobody Likes a Liar: Rick Warren's John Hagee Moment ?
Bruce Wilson printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 11:22:16 AM EST
Experience has taught Rick Warren that he can get away with holding up Hitler youth, to his church members, as a model of dedication to a cause. But, Warren may just have gone too far, because nobody likes a liar. As Larry King declared on Larry King Live, "No matter what you think of Rick Warren, he's an extraordinary guy." Warren is indeed extra-ordinary, because ordinary Christian sensibility-as defined by the Ten Commandments that have helped shape Judaism and it's daughter religions, Christianity and Islam-would commonly hold that it's at the very least unseemly to lie. Rick Warren appears to be under the impression that it's possible in this day and age to be filmed espousing one position, then declare on national television, that he had never done anything of the sort. And, why might Rick Warren think so ? Well, John Hagee got away with as much - though Hagee was careful in his statements to avoid, in strict terms, technically lying. Activists such as Pam Spaulding are rightfully holding Rick Warren's big anti-gay ego to the fire for one of the few things that might just knock the mega-evangelist off his global perch.
As Pam Spaulding sums it up:

"Oh the joy of getting busted lying on international TV and having to do serious damage control. My post on Tuesday, "Rick Warren lies about his homobigotry on Larry King Live," was picked up by Huff Post and created a buzz for  pointing out that on the man who delivered the invocation at the President's inaugural, Rick Warren, the spiritual leader of Saddleback church, flat-out lied about his support for Prop 8. A recap from the CNN transcript..."

WARREN: During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going.

But of course he seemed to have forgotten his message to his flock prior to the election where he very clearly endorsed Prop 8:

WARREN: Here's an interesting thing: there are about 2% of Americans are homosexual, gay, lesbian people. We should not let 2% of the population determine -- to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years. This is not even just a Christian issue, it is a humanitarian and human issue, that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation. I urge you to support Proposition 8 and to pass that on.

John Hagee got away with his wholesale attempts to revise the date on which he gave his late 2005 "God sent a hunter. Hitler was a hunter." sermon that I helped bring to public attention last year. In the ensuing media hullabuloo, Hagee first claimed he was being roasted for something he had said "decades ago." In a letter of pseudo-apology to the ADL, Hagee put the date at the late 1990's. But at that time his ministry was still selling DVD's of the notorious sermon.

So, it's not all that surprising that Rick Warren thought he could lie shamelessly on Larry King Live and get away with it, but if there's one value shared among Christian and non-Christian alike it's this: nobody likes a liar.




Display:
I hope people followup on this. Share it and give it airtime, especially among his supporters in the right wing, for it appears that he is less than genuine in his opposition to gay marriage, when he can tell Larry King that he wasn't fighting it, but personally opposed, and shared that with someone close to him who asked his opinion. I appears that both sides of this debate could be offended by what he had to say, as well as people who just plain want people to be real, saying what they mean and meaning what they say. My own position, is also not completely clear, as I passionately believe that the best pattern is marriage between one man and one woman, but believe that those in a committed relationship should have the right to marry. We also have to recognize the historical patterns of polygamy as well as the contemporary practice of "serial marriages" all which are outside by personal preference of one man and one woman. The question reminds we of the question of the seven brothers, all marrying their brothers widow. "In the resurrection, whose wife will she be?" and Jesus with a smile and a shake of his head says. "You greatly error, not understanding the nature of the resurrection, for in heaven there is no marriage." So many of our battles are over earthly things, and show our lack of understanding of the kingdom of God's Grace.

by chaplain on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 03:40:02 PM EST
I don't know that there is as good an argument for polygamous marriage (in this day and age) as there is for gay marriage.

While there is an argument historically for polygamy (it's been practiced for thousands of years) it developed out of the belief that women are chattel -- property to be owned -- and certainly expected to be subservient to their husband.

That is still true today, and while I would concede there are a few women who quite happily marry into such situations, there is plenty of evidence that the cults who practice it have to engage in a lot of grooming (i.e brainwashing) of girls and young women so they are receptive when the time comes for them to be married.

Just as we would never, as a society, legally protect arranged marriage (another longstanding institution in some culture) I don't believe we will ever sanction polygamous marriages, and I don't believe we should either. It would be a large step backwards for women's rights.

by tacitus on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:14:32 PM EST
Parent

Just a guess.

by Bruce Wilson on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:51:41 PM EST
Parent



Rick Warren was a no-show for ABC's This Week with George Stephanopolis this morning -- he was supposed to be the only guest, but canceled at the very last minute, citing "exhaustion" as the reason.

Now, that could be true, but it was awfully convenient that he had an excuse to back out of one of the few shows he would probably agree to appear on where he would not necessarily get an easy ride.  (All Larry King does is puffery, which is why he stays in business.)

by tacitus on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:03:03 PM EST

I have pictures from George Bush Sr.'s 80th birthday, with John Hagee posing alongside Condi Rice, Dick Cheney, Bush Sr., Randy Travis, and... Larry King. It seemed very chummy.

I agree with your analysis.

by Bruce Wilson on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 09:41:43 PM EST
Parent




WWW Talk To Action


Cognitive Dissonance & Dominionism Denial
There is new research on why people are averse to hearing or learning about the views of ideological opponents. Based on evaluation of five......
By Frederick Clarkson (375 comments)
Will the Air Force Do Anything To Rein In Its Dynamic Duo of Gay-Bashing, Misogynistic Bloggers?
"I always get nervous when I see female pastors/chaplains. Here is why everyone should as well: "First, women are not called to be pastors,......
By Chris Rodda (203 comments)
The Legacy of Big Oil
The media is ablaze with the upcoming publication of David Grann's book, Killers of the Flower Moon. The shocking non fiction account of the......
By wilkyjr (111 comments)
Gimme That Old Time Dominionism Denial
Over the years, I have written a great deal here and in other venues about the explicitly theocratic movement called dominionism -- which has......
By Frederick Clarkson (101 comments)
History Advisor to Members of Congress Completely Twists Jefferson's Words to Support Muslim Ban
Pseudo-historian David Barton, best known for his misquoting of our country's founders to promote the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation,......
By Chris Rodda (113 comments)
"Christian Fighter Pilot" Calls First Lesbian Air Force Academy Commandant a Liar
In a new post on his "Christian Fighter Pilot" blog titled "BGen Kristin Goodwin and the USAFA Honor Code," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan......
By Chris Rodda (144 comments)
Catholic Right Leader Unapologetic about Call for 'Death to Liberal Professors' -- UPDATED
Today, Donald Trump appointed C-FAM Executive Vice President Lisa Correnti to the US Delegation To UN Commission On Status Of Women. (C-FAM is a......
By Frederick Clarkson (126 comments)
Controlling Information
     Yesterday I listened to Russ Limbaugh.  Rush advised listeners it would be best that they not listen to CNN,MSNBC, ABC, CBS and......
By wilkyjr (118 comments)
Is Bannon Fifth-Columning the Pope?
In December 2016 I wrote about how White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who likes to flash his Catholic credentials when it comes to......
By Frank Cocozzelli (251 comments)
Ross Douthat's Hackery on the Seemingly Incongruous Alliance of Bannon & Burke
Conservative Catholic writer Ross Douthat has dissembled again. This time, in a February 15, 2017 New York Times op-ed titled The Trump Era's Catholic......
By Frank Cocozzelli (65 comments)
`So-Called Patriots' Attack The Rule Of Law
Every so often, right-wing commentator Pat Buchanan lurches out of the far-right fever swamp where he has resided for the past 50 years to......
By Rob Boston (161 comments)
Bad Faith from Focus on the Family
Here is one from the archives, Feb 12, 2011, that serves as a reminder of how deeply disingenuous people can be. Appeals to seek......
By Frederick Clarkson (177 comments)
The Legacy of George Wallace
"One need not accept any of those views to agree that they had appealed to real concerns of real people, not to mindless, unreasoning......
By wilkyjr (70 comments)
Betsy DeVos's Mudsill View of Public Education
My Talk to Action colleague Rachel Tabachnick has been doing yeoman's work in explaining Betsy DeVos's long-term strategy for decimating universal public education. If......
By Frank Cocozzelli (80 comments)
Prince and DeVos Families at Intersection of Radical Free Market Privatizers and Religious Right
This post from 2011 surfaces important information about President-Elect Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos. -- FC Erik Prince, Brother of Betsy......
By Rachel Tabachnick (218 comments)

Respect for Others? or Political Correctness?
The term "political correctness" as used by Conservatives and Republicans has often puzzled me: what exactly do they mean by it? After reading Chip Berlin's piece here-- http://www.talk2action.org/story/2016/7/21/04356/9417 I thought about what he explained......
MTOLincoln (253 comments)
Fear
What I'm feeling now is fear.  I swear that it seems my nightmares are coming true with this new "president".  I'm also frustrated because so many people are not connecting all the dots! I've......
ArchaeoBob (109 comments)
"America - love it or LEAVE!"
I've been hearing that and similar sentiments fairly frequently in the last few days - far FAR more often than ever before.  Hearing about "consequences for burning the flag (actions) from Trump is chilling!......
ArchaeoBob (216 comments)
"Faked!" Meme
Keep your eyes and ears open for a possible move to try to discredit the people openly opposing Trump and the bigots, especially people who have experienced terrorism from the "Right"  (Christian Terrorism is......
ArchaeoBob (166 comments)
More aggressive proselytizing
My wife told me today of an experience she had this last week, where she was proselytized by a McDonald's employee while in the store. ......
ArchaeoBob (164 comments)
See if you recognize names on this list
This comes from the local newspaper, which was conservative before and took a hard right turn after it was sold. Hint: Sarah Palin's name is on it!  (It's also connected to Trump.) ......
ArchaeoBob (169 comments)
Unions: A Labor Day Discussion
This is a revision of an article which I posted on my personal board and also on Dailykos. I had an interesting discussion on a discussion board concerning Unions. I tried to piece it......
Xulon (180 comments)
Extremely obnoxious protesters at WitchsFest NYC: connected to NAR?
In July of this year, some extremely loud, obnoxious Christian-identified protesters showed up at WitchsFest, an annual Pagan street fair here in NYC.  Here's an account of the protest by Pagan writer Heather Greene......
Diane Vera (130 comments)
Capitalism and the Attack on the Imago Dei
I joined this site today, having been linked here by Crooksandliars' Blog Roundup. I thought I'd put up something I put up previously on my Wordpress blog and also at the DailyKos. As will......
Xulon (331 comments)
History of attitudes towards poverty and the churches.
Jesus is said to have stated that "The Poor will always be with you" and some Christians have used that to refuse to try to help the poor, because "they will always be with......
ArchaeoBob (149 comments)
Alternate economy medical treatment
Dogemperor wrote several times about the alternate economy structure that dominionists have built.  Well, it's actually made the news.  Pretty good article, although it doesn't get into how bad people could be (have been)......
ArchaeoBob (90 comments)
Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else © 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.