Sometimes I think that we're sliding backwards into darkness and fear. This really saddens me. I like modern medicine and things like electricity and freedom of speech. Oh, and being my own woman.

by Lorie Johnson on Fri Dec 23, 2005 at 09:56:01 AM EST

Meanwhile, check out my diary Evidence of ID by January? in which a major democratic party strategist offers his views on ID.

by Frederick Clarkson on Fri Dec 23, 2005 at 11:00:46 AM EST

I can't cite any scripture on this off the top of my head but I certainly grew up, as a Methodist minister's son, with a rather developed sense that truth telling had a central place in the Christian ethic.

What's at issue here for me is this : at what point should assertions such as Mr. Land's, as they slide into absurd levels of hyperbole, be considered to be falsehoods ?

by Bruce Wilson on Fri Dec 23, 2005 at 02:06:29 PM EST

It is especially sickening when Baptists were the leaders in fighting for the Bill of Rights. Men like John Leland, and many others were against the adoption of the U.S. Constitution without freedom of religion being contained therein. They had railed against the church tax that was collected not only by the colonies, but continued under the various states after the revolution. The Episcopal Church in Virginia was the established church for that state, and everyone was taxed to support it. The same was true for most of the other states, with the exception of Rhode Island which was started by Roger Williams, who was, for a time, Baptist.

For may years the SBC was a very active member of the Baptist Joint Commission for Public Affairs. Several years ago they pulled out; now we see the plan.

The entire plan of the fundamentalist leaders of the SBC and the various state convention leaders who have not decided to go their own way, is domination.
It is an entire abandonment of "soul freedom" or freedom of the individual to choose his or her own religion and, if Christian, to interpret the Bible as he or she is led to do by study and the work of the Holy Spirit. In other words, Baptist leadership has long ago abandoned the "Priesthood of the believer" which was the main reason I was drawn to the SBC.

IT IS NOW MY FIRM BELIEF THAT THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION IS NO LONGER A BAPTIST FAITH. It is autocratic, seeking to establish a church state. It has abandoned separation of church and state. It is seeking to become the only church. Some leaders have said that all other denominations are mere sects. It has abandoned the core belief of the priesthood of the believer; it is more and more Calvinistic.  The leaders have no respect for any beliefs but their own. The new Baptist Faith and Message no longer states that it is by Jesus that we interpret our faith. It makes the Bible not a document which was written by persons inspired by God, but a book of harsh rules which must be interpreted by the SBC leadership. The Baptist Faith and Message subjugates women to an inferior position, not in keeping with the teachings of Christ.

I stood by thinking, "Well, I don't have to worry, I can run my ministry as I see fit, and I am not paid by them."  Well, they even tried to come after me and other chaplains. As of now they have made some rules that seek to reign in the Chaplains, even when Chaplains don't receive their pay from the Convention.

Intelligent Design? Well, as a Christian I do see intelligence in all of God's wonderful evolving creation.
In my opinion the SBC has turned back to the days when they split from northern Baptists. The southerners  wanted to appoint a slaveholder to be a missionary. The SBC is fast becoming bigoted against anyone who wants rights for women, who wants to accept homosexuals who are sinners as we are, and anyone who is of a different religion.


by pastornorm on Fri Dec 23, 2005 at 05:54:29 PM EST